my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

i just picked up my new $50 gold buffalo from the post office today. i didn't take it out of the mylar package yet but i can already tell this ain't no MS70. it has a nick on the side of the rim that actually made a "burr". it looks like it got banged by something sharp. also the edge of the rim on the other side has 3 scratches and a flat spot. the mylar is'nt damaged at all so i know this happened at the mint. :censored:

i guess it's not too big a deal since i was planning on getting my fingerprints on it anyway. anyone else get a buffalo that looks like S:censored: T?

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

This always happens on Friday deliveries so you can be pissed until the guy on the other end tells you they will replace it. I thought it was just my luck but hey look at it this way, you are in good company.

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

I got my 1st in hand look at a sheet of 20 Buffalo gold coins today. I like 'em! Boy are they Yellow! It is also amazing how much smaller they are than the Gold Eagles. I'm sitting tight with my dry powder as I suspect one more slap down in hard assests coming it could be already in progress! I've always been a bargain shopper:proud: Lower gold = lower inflation preception. After all they have some elections to win coming soon. I wonder what the movie America; From Freedom to Fascism will do to the voting public...Hmmm?

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

When is that movie supposed to come out?

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

Its suppose to be out by July 28th. I definately am planning to see it.

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

I've looked at about 9 of those things in person and haven't found one I'd buy yet.

Oh, Unless I count the $1295.00 MS 70 that one assclown had for sale. No thanks

I think the coin has some design flaws. Most I saw were struck off center and even the one that seemed centered to my drunk like eye had a funny looking rim. I think the rim is too thin for .9999.

oh well. I'll still pick up a few. I love the rest of it. I'm a sucker for that Buffalo design...

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

I would be hella mad if I got mine dented. I almost bought one at 670 but paused and then I saw the price start going downhill. I am just waiting for the price to start dropping.

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

Why not just get a ms69? Comes in plastic case. Problem soved.
http://www.apmex.com/shop/buy/2006_g....asp?orderid=0

2006 Gold Buffalo Coins (1 Ounce) - .9999 Fine
Graded by PCGS MS-69 "FIRST STRIKE" Coins!!! Qty = 281 $667.00

Those 281 will be gone by monday.

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

I like the idea of it being in a case but $45 over spot and you believe these will be gone by Monday. I'm not a numismatic person can ya tell. I certainly don't plan on over $800 for a proof but I did see one recently and having some of that mirror finish is nice. The MS60 looks appealing, I have to see if they have a minimum amount. Love that buffalo design.

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

well, i'm not too mad about it. like i said, this one was for bullion anyway and i plan on taking it out to show people and handle.

i just thought the mint would be more careful. if i was saving it for nuismatic value i would return it and demand an undamaged one. it'll make a good "pocket piece".

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

Perfect attitude, Duck! I have the exact opposite situation - I have proofs and MS 70's but not one right now I can take out and actually handle and show people - tho I will get one on the next dip!

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

In some cases being cheap may not be the best idea. I think my 9 year old daughter will be very happy her dad paid a little extra for a first strike MS69 buffalo the first year they came out 10+ years from now when I pass them on the her.

I wish my grandfather had the insight to pass down some 20 dollar saints to me.

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

it doesnt seem like the 1986 gold eagle proofs are worth more than the buffalo proofs now....so over 20 yrs of waiting and the people that thought the first year of issue will be worth tons are probably upset.

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

<table bordercolordark="#336699" bordercolorlight="#336699" border="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr width="100%" align="center" height="24" valign="middle"><td align="left" bgcolor="#ffffff" valign="middle" width="100%"> PCGS MS69 1 Ounce 1986 American Gold Eagle</td><td align="right" bgcolor="#ffffff" nowrap="nowrap" valign="middle"> $0 </td><td colspan="2" align="center" bgcolor="#ffffff" nowrap="nowrap" valign="middle"> Sold Out</td></tr></tbody></table>
Could not find one for sale PCGS MS69 1986 1oz. gold eagle. Anyone know where to find one?

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

The 86's will be more desireable if and when they stop the GAE series. The new MS Buffalo's are being minted to meet demand. In addition, the 2007's will be out around the, New Year.

Forward thinking minds should ponder what the possibilities are from then on?
A new series of Buffalo's? An end to the GAE's? The SAE's to follow suite?

I have now heard (Two seperate times) through the rumor mill and from one post here on GIM that, SAE's may soon be, clad. I myself do not believe that will happen. but it is still a possibility.

Bottom line is, we all need to pick our own battles. I myself have only within the past few years, collected coins (A mix of numismatic and bullion value). I have always felt as if I am playing, Catch Up (In regards to numismatic value). IMO the new Buffalo's give me and others a chance to stop playing, Catch Up. As well, I think the above possibilities will be answered come 2008.

I myself saved and bought ten Buffalo proofs the day they were issued. Sent them directly to, NGC as soon as I got them. Did the same with three MS Buffalo's (as I figured most here would do). My grades; 3 MS-70's, 2 PF-70 UC's and 8 PF-69 UC's, all "First Strikes". I'm not trying to show boat, just trying to share my experience. NGC has that rule if you send in coins 30 days after issue and in their original holders, they designate them, "First strike". So I used their designation as leverage to get better graded coins. Do you really think they want a coin graded PF-68 as a First strike? Now, I also sent along an 86 Proof GAE I had laying around, with the above coins. In NGC's mad rush they designated the 86 as a, First Strike too... They made a boo-boo, in my favor...

I read an earlier post about an MS Buffalo, with a weak, thin rim and a mark on it. On of my 70's returned to me looked the same. I didn't even want to send it in, but my gut just said, do it.

Lastly, if anyone else here buys lets say, rare coins from a particular dealer with some consistency? Why not ask him/her for some MS-70's @ 5% above their cost? Use the loyal customer edge in your favor. It works... I got three more MS 70's @ $715 each, with the promise of something alike when the 07's come out.

Good Luck to all.

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

HIGHFIVE!!!! That is the best single thing I have heard in sometime!
Congratulations!! Its incredible to believe they are racing so fast to get coins graded they didn't look at the coin or date.

This is why with the release of this Buffalo coin, NGC is losing ground - PCGS MS70's for this coin near $2000, twice what NGCs are getting for the same grade. In their mad rush to get as many MS69s and 70's onto holders, NGC is destroying their reputation and causing their coins in other areas to be seen as "second to PCGS"......they shot themselves in the foot.

But look on Ebay, APMEX or other places and you'll see there is a premium over PCGS over NGC that is widening and this is why!

So you scored big with their error - more power to you!

Again, congratulations!

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

I'm waiting for the scratch and dent sale.:wink:

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

I like this guy.:clap2:

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

Thanks, I really posted it so that others may want to give it a try when the 07's come out-spread the wealth.

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

I am not so sure they will do an '07...and if they do I think the collector's best-go would be the smaller denominations they mentioned doing at some point.

A freind who collectors and works a big LA store told me that when you look at circulation numbers, ounces are the most minted, the smaller denominations, expecially cause they sell for a higher premium than the ounces, were bought less and therefore are worth a bit more over time. I haven't done enough research myself to know - but that does make sense to me cause I haven't bought smaller denominations for the exact same reason.

Still - considering there were no first Strikes back when that coin was released - you should (to the very best of my knowledge) have the ONLY First Strike of that or any coin! I THINK First Strikes started in the 2003!!!

I wonder what that means for your coin!

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

Informed numismatists buy the coin, not the holder. A mistake on a slab is just that, and should command no premium.

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

Absolutely - the keyword here tho is "informed numismatists"...on Ebay he'll make a killing!! :D

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

You guys are correct; Buy The Coin, not the slab.

I'm not looking to scam anyone with the 86 either. It's slated for a dark hide away, to be given to my kids. In not so many words, I was trying to point out NGC's shortcommings. I do feel the, "First Strike" label is all about politics. Nonetheless, I think average Joe's can use it to their advantage to get better graded coins. Now that the 30 days are over, I'd bet a lot of, MS & PF 68's will be given out. I guess you can say, I feel sending them in within the first 30 days, is like hedging your bet. Honestly, I only view slabbed coins as being authentic myself, yet others go ga-ga over a grade.

As for the first strikes... Not true about 2003 being the 1st year, I've seen 1994 SAE's as of late.

As for the 2007's... The mint will being making pure coins again in 2007. Just not clear if they will be, Buffalo's again and or something similar? The latest issue of, Coin world backs me up on that. I'd post the article, but I only have the print edition. So again, this could be the start of a new series and possibly the end to the, GAE's. Or just simply a two year run of 24kt. coins. Either way, I think we'll know exactly what will happen late 2007.

If I remember correctly the 2007's will be out late Dec./ early Jan. 07? Once again I will buy what I can, as soon as possible and send them on in and use NGC's First Strike leverage to increase my odd's of excellent grades. Do I believe their grades to be the end all to all? No I do not, but many new investors will, 5 years down the road. I'm Long on Gold!

Besides, I think we all know that NGC, PCGS and all the dealers with connections/"Hooks" to them, are the real winners in this "First Strike" silly game. I'd just like us little guys to use it to our advantage, as best as we can.

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

Yes, politics and about people paying more cause they are one of the first 50,000 coins minted and, therefore, suppose to be in proof-like or (to quote some) "perfect" condition! (If so - how come so many more MS 69's than 70's?) Plus, I suspect the 'panic' to get a First Strike label has increased both PCGS & NGCs submissions and income, at what $30 per submission??

No argument outta me on this one - I have been unable, thru PCGS's site, to determine the first year they did them. I have something they wrote that gave me 2005 but then I have a 2003, so I was guessimating mid-2000s.

Courtesy of PCGS, you can now know, without a doubt, that you are actually purchasing a true "First Strike" Silver, Gold or Platinum American Eagle since it is a copyrighted term owned solely by PCGS. These coins will have the phrase "First Strike" printed on the Certification insert, and placed into the PCGS sealed holder. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

PCGS (Professional Coin Grading Service), the most respected third party grading service in the coin business, for the very first time ever, is offering for 2005, certified MS69 American Silver Eagles, that will be designated as the highly sought-after actual and legitimate "First Strike" coins.(As of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:date Year="2005" Day="31" Month="1">January 31, 2005</st1:date>, "First Strike" - PCGS discontinued using this tag and started using the "20th Anniversary" to commemorate the longevity of the Eagle program.) <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

In order for silver eagles to be graded with the unique "First Strike" designation, they must be submitted to PCGS in unopened Mint-Sealed Original Boxes and the audit tape inside must be dated no later than January of the year in question.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

1) A PCGS representative must cut the strapped monister box that was send by <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> Mint that contains 500 silver Eagle coins.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

2) A PCGS representative must check the slip inside the box and the slip must be dated between 1st and 30th of January of the box date.<o:p></o:p>

These brand new "First Strike" designated coins will carry a different serial number than that of later year released Silver Eagles. This is being done to certify that you are purchasing the real thing, and not just an average run-of-the-mill 2005 MS69 Silver Eagle, that someone may be falsely claiming to be a first strike.
<o:p></o:p>

But, here again, my 2003 is a NGC coin - which contradicts the statment that First Strike is only PCGS and started in 2005......lord only knows what happened here!


Well, I intend to win too - I am going to hope they mess up again and submit a mess of St. Gauden's for a "First Strike" label!! :D

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

GOOOOOOOD LUCK....... That was the funniest laugh I've had in a while. Imagine a 1923-D First Strike.................... lololololololl :clap2:

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

Think I can slip in some ancient Roman coins for First Strikes? :haha:

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

i've got a box of slabbed 2006 silver eagles marked "First Strike" from NGC. no grade on them though. just slabbed and marked. if PCGS is in such a hurry that they ain't even looking at the coins why don't they just do that? you could always send it in later and get an actual grade.

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

Its not PCGS that is racing them thru - its NCG - which is why I said NGC is shooting itself in the foot here........PCGS is holding on to their credibilty, which si why they are getting ALOT more for their MS69's and 70's than NGC!

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

It's my understanding that, those coins are only MS-60's through 66's...

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

I am confused.....which are?

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

oops, my bad.

same question though, couldn't NGC just slab them all "first strike" and then if you wanted an actual grade just submit it at a later date when they actually have time to look at the coin?

i don't buy much slabbed coin unless i can get it at non-slabbed prices. and i sure as hell ain't gonna pay extra for a MS70 slab that has an ms68 coin in it!!!

it's good advice not to buy high-grade coins unless you can actually look at the coin first.

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

I meant these above coins. Sorry, I see how my post was silly.

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

Sure they could - but then they'd charge you twice, once for each time it goes thru their company.........

And that sort of avoids dealing with the real issue - if they are going to grade - they need to really take the time to do it right.........there is absolutely NO excuse for them grading a 1986 Eagle as a new 2006 First Strike...........sure, accidents happen but thats one heck of an accident!

I really hate to see NGCs coins going for so much less than PCGS for the same grade (cause I have a lot of both, one wants to believe they are fairly comparable) but the PCGS of the MS70 Buffalo is going for double the NGC (check Ebay or APMEX) because they are taking the time, doing the job right and retaining their credibility. This might well mean that people will start figuring ALL NGC coins are worth half a similar PCGS.....and I, for one, would be very hesitant to have NGC grade any of my coins at this point.

NGC might have made some quick money in the short run (and they do the majority of the grading for the Home Shopping Network where ALOT of their coins are getting sold - at a HUGE premium - one reason I think they rushed things - this coin was barely out and the Coin Vault had them ready for sale - it totally amazed me) but in the longrun I think they might have really undermined their credibility and future business.

In fact, I might give it a year or two to see how the dust settles and then have ALL my NGC coins re-graded by PCGS.

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

Simple answer...........its not, it MUST be graded a First strike.

More complex answer..........

FIRST STRIKE: the first coin, or one of the earliest 50,000 coins, struck from a pair of dies. These are usually Prooflike, well struck and nearly perfect. These coins will have the phrase "First Strike" printed on the Certification insert, and placed into the graded sealed holder.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
In order for a coin to be graded with the unique "First Strike" designation, they must be submitted to PCGS or NCG in unopened mint-sealed original boxes or holders (usually with the sales receipt showing it was bought in the first 30 days)<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

I'm willing to bet nobody can tell the difference between two similarly graded coins, one dubbed a "first strike" and the other minted after the first strike period, once removed from their holders. Makes me think this is a make-believe bubbl.. eh, market. So, where is the true value in that? :beer:

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

Well, of course - the First Strike label is designed to get people to pay a higher amount for a newer minted coin - thats a given. But why would anyone remove a graded coin from its holder after you have paid extra to get it graded? That would be like buying an expensive painting and giving you kids crayons and telling them to go at it!

The theory is that the coin is in a "more perfect condition" cause its one of the first 50,000 off that die........sure, they grade at MS 69 or 70 but lots of other coins are minted afterwards that have a similar grade. People are paying (as collectors, not investors in bullion) for a coin that is assured to be one of those very first ones. Not 'better", just "first"...and they get a few extra dollars for it.

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

Of course nobody would remove the coins once slabbed. My statement was rhetorical, to illustrate my belief there really is no visual difference between a coin minted on, say the 25th day, vs. one minted 2 weeks later. Yet an artificial market is created to make the earlier coin more valuable.

I see where you're coming from about the earliest strikes being in more perfect condition, but with a low run of only a few hundred thousand, and a planchet of soft 24K AU, I doubt there would be any noticeable degradation in the dies during their production life.

Re: my new buffalo gold is all scratched and dented!!!
 

Exactly - we agree - and thats why, in some cases, the First Strike hasn't always gotten much more than the non-First Strike in the same grade. The difference with the one coin is that, being the first 24kt and the first newly minted coin since 1987, it MIGHT be worth more as a First Strike in years to come...it is, after all, one of only 50,000. I wouldn't be falling all over myself trying to get a First Strike on following years mint of this coin tho.